Northern Shadow: Skyrim + Banished ?

[Sotek]

Interview (un peu vague) des devs par RPS: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014...dow-interview/

[blutch2]

le passage, "construisez votre village comme vous le voulez" (je traduit vite fait) c'est juste épique, ça laisse entendre que l'on peut placer ses bâtiments comme on l'entend

[Darkath]

le passage, "construisez votre village comme vous le voulez" (je traduit vite fait) c'est juste épique, ça laisse entendre que l'on peut placer ses bâtiments comme on l'entend

Ouais mais c'est pas exactement ce qu'ils disent :

You will be able to take pre-made cities for your own. Kingdom capitals won’t have the same layout flexibility of normal cities, but you will be able to change/improve the buildings in them.

Currently, we are using a slot zone system, but working on moving towards to a grid system, which will give players ability to build roads and buildings wherever they want within the city limits.

en gros les villes importantes comme les capitales sont majoritairement pré-définies avec la possibilité de les personnaliser un minimum a travers les batiments existants. Les villes normales sont plus fléxible mais utilise quand même des zones de construction définies (slot zones). Enfin ils sont en train d'améliorer le système pour avoir une grille (comme un city builder classique j'imagine) mais c'est encore en développement donc on sait pas encore si ils vont réussir a vraiment donner une liberté totale de construction.

[tompalmer]

On a des news du jeu ?

[Xaem]

Ce UP de la mort.

Moi qui espérait lire un message d'un gentil canard disant que le jeu est dispo sur Steam...

Sinon pour répondre à ta question tompalmer, j'ai envoyé un mail il y a une petite semaine pour leur demander une date de sortie et je n'ai reçu aucune réponse. J'imagine qu'ils doivent être très occupés.

Visiblement l'été en Turquie se termine plus tard, ceci expliquant cela.

[Okxyd]

"Sadique comme un développeur turque" Expression couramment utilisée de nos jours depuis l'annonce de M&B: Bannerlord.

[TKN Jez]

Tout pareil que Xaem j'ai espéré fortement que cet up eut été synonyme de sortie en alpha / bêta à tester et j'étais tout fou :x

Va falloir être patient!

[gundz]

ça à l'air sympa tout ça ! Par contre il y à un truc qui risque de faire tache, c'est la construction des bâtiments en vue fps (le truc qui sort du sol c'est pas terrible...)
J'attend toujours le jeu de stratégie / gestion ou les bâtiments sont "réellement" construit un peu comme les pyramides dans pharaon (pierre par pierre, échafaudage au fur et à mesure, peinture etc...)

[Xaem]

End of summer could mean the fall equinox - which is sept 23. Just saying!

Hello,

We do not have a date yet unfortunately. Working non-stop to get it ready for early access release!

[TKN Jez]

[Xaem]

Mail d'un dev reçu à l'instant : (les réponses juste au dessus viennent de Steam Greenlight)

Hello,

We do not have a release date yet unfortunately. Working on it nostop!

Best wishes,
Arda Güneş

Ça sent le report.

[Klistic]

Je suis sceptique.

Même si j'ai vraiment envie de sauter au plafond.

[Xaem]

Je suis sceptique aussi. J'ai l'impression que les dev ne s'attendaient pas à ce que Northern Shadow suscite autant d'espoir/impatience (il suffit de le voir sur leur Greenlight).

Ils doivent bosser à fond. Ça expliquerait qu'ils nous laissent sans nouvelle.

[Xaem]

Yes, we are alive! Working non-stop!

Our initial plan was to start regular info dumps in June, and release it late August, but then some things happened (good things) and it delayed us. We are hoping to start doing the regular updates soon, can't give a date on the release, but hopefuly its not too far off.

[tompalmer]

update pour dire : rentrez chez vous y'a rien a voir

[Xaem]

Hello everyone,

In this new dev blog, we’ll explain why we’ve been silent for so long, and why the game was delayed.

Months ago, before we even announced Northern Shadow, we wanted to submit our game as early as we could, because we thought the process of getting greenlit would take months. Our hope was to get a greenlight around the same timeframe with the alpha finish date. We didn't think the announcement would get the traction that it did. The amazing responses we got from everyone caught us completely off-guard, which is one of the reasons why we’ve been silent for the past few months, we weren’t prepared to keep up with the fast Greenlight tempo. The other reason requires a bit more comprehensive explanation.

We started game development in 2011 with UDK (indie version of Unreal Engine 3). We worked on lots of prototyping of different games and genres with it. In November 2013, we switched to Unity to have less restrictions on the prototype we've been working at that time. When we started working on Northern Shadow, Unity allowed us to make great strides in a very short amount of time. Light and extensible nature of the Unity engine was a good fit for us.

As the development progressed, we started having some issues. When working with a general purpose engine, some issues are expected to appear. Working around those issues is quite an acceptable compromise for us when compared to writing an engine from scratch. We ended up replacing or enhancing significant chunk of Unity tools, either by rewriting them, or by Asset Store. Biggest issues we had with Unity however were low level, and had no workarounds.

Main problems were the 32-bit editor and level streaming. Lack of 64-bit editor was the biggest issue, as it single handedly almost halted the development of content. We couldn't open some of the maps because editor would run out of memory almost instantly due to the heavy amount of objects. Accidental clicks on some of the scene hierarchies would lock the editor up for minutes, and possibly crash it. Level streaming issues prevented us from dividing the levels into smaller sized chunks.

These issues started showing their heads around March, at that time, Unity 5 was announced, and had fixes for the exactly those issues. We were hoping that Unity 5 would be released before these issues became unmanageable. In hindsight, that was a mistake . In June these issues did become unmanageable, we realized we were spending more time on solving these issues than we did on developing the game. Unity 5 being a black box at that time, with no release date and no info on the fixes/improvements didn't help.

Back in March when Unreal Engine 4 was announced, we decided to stick with Unity, at that time the development cost of switching was too high, and we were still at that development sweet-spot that the Unity is at its best. As the issues accumulated, the cost of these workarounds started highly outweighing the cost of an engine switch. Which is why, even though after such a large amount of development, we decided to switch to Unreal Engine 4.

Unity is a great engine. And in fact, both 64-bit editor and level streaming issues have been fixed with the Unity 5, which became available for pre-orders a few weeks ago. Its just that for our specific situation, it was a few months late

That was a bit long, but after such a long silence, I think a more detailed explanation was needed. We couldn't talk much these last few months, because we were switching to a different engine, and didn't wanted to show it until was ready. But now we can talk about some of the new and exciting stuff!

We've completely redid the world. Originally we had 3 overworld zones that was 15sqkm big. We now have a single 103.4sqkm overworld zone that you can seamlessly travel. We've added seasons to the game, AI acts accordingly to them and your cities' requirements change over time. Switch also gave us a free boost to eye-candy department with better Post-Processing, GPU particles, dynamic global illumination, and better Anti-Aliasing.

We are still away from the release, but it is getting closer (in fact, closest we've ever been!). We will be doing regular dev blogs moving forward. You can find the new Unreal Engine 4 screenshots in our Steam Greenlight or Facebook pages.

Thanks!

[Pouet51]

Ca dit quoi en gros en Fr ?

[tompalmer]

ça sort bientôt et ils ont du s'adapter a unity.

[Pouet51]

Merci !

[bobbyjr]

ça sort bientôt et ils ont du s'adapter a unity.

Moi je lis qu'ils sont passés à Unreal Engine 4 (et donc ne sont plus sous Unity), qu'ils sont passés de 3 zone de 15 km² à une zone de 103 km², qu'ils ont ajouté les saisons et que l'IA réagit en fonction. Et surtout que ça sort pas vraiment bientôt (après qu'est ce qu'on entend par bientôt).

[tompalmer]

Possible j'ai lu en diagonale

[Xaem]

Some quick answers
If it's 1 dev blog per year, does it still count as regular?

Yeah, saying that I dropped the ball on that one would be the understatement of the year. I apologize.

Some quick answers:

Is it dead? Nope, development never stopped, there were some structural changes however, will probably do a post on that as it is way too long to list on a forum post.

Why the long silence? Mostly personal issues, which are no excuse I know.

What changed in a quick glance? Most of the heavy hitter features was changed in the past few months, AI, dialog system, building system, foliage system. It would be easier to list the unchanged features.

Are there any bad news? The underworld probably won't make it to the first release in favor of a larger/better built overworld area.

When is the release? Honestly, I don't know. There are few things left, primarily the dialog system, once that is in a presentable state, I'm going to make a gameplay commentary video explaining the mechanics and the gameplay of it (the dialog system specifically). After that, it depends all depends on your comments.

When is the next update? Within this month. Will release some of the custom UE4 tools I use and explain the some of the new mechanics. First as a dev blog, then as a gameplay video.

Source : http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/f...6964599647649/

[Xaem]

Hello everyone!

It’s been a while since last dev blog. Much has changed since the start of the year, some of them are good, some of them are bad, but overall there seems to be an upward trend so far. Most of the systems have been either rewritten or redesigned completely. AI, dialog system, city management, kingdom management, building system, foliage system and even the map itself has quite significant changes. Starting with this one, there will be a new series of dev blogs coming out every 1-2 weeks, describing the changes and the mechanics in detail. There is also a new forum on the website, you can join the discussion here.

Changes weren’t limited to the game only. There were also structural changes on dev team as well. Taner has left the development late January this year, I’ve been working on the game solo since then.

Before getting into the meat of the blog, I’ll answer the most frequently asked question: When is the release? It is a bit complicated. As I’ve mention above, there will be a series of new dev blogs about the changed mechanics of the game, after 2-3 of these blogs, I will make a gameplay video that further explains the mechanics in detail. After that, the release will be determined by the feedback that you’ll give.

Now, on to AI!

Usually in traditional RPGs non essential NPCs are treated as background decoration. For the purposes of those games, this makes perfect sense, both in narrative and gameplay wise. Once we start going into more sandbox (or open world) territories, NPCs start looking a little more interesting. They might move around and comment on the player.

Some of the more advanced types have daily routines, they wake up, go to work, talk with some people and so on. Even in those cases however, most NPCs are designed as background decoration. When you enter a city or a village, and see people moving around, merchants at their shops, kids running around, you don’t question any of it. Mainly because you have better things to do, important quests to finish, or a big armor to craft. These NPCs present just enough interactivity to let you fill in the blanks with your own imagination. This makes perfect sense, if the meat of the game is exploration, combat and then a narrative pay off at the end, the game doesn’t need more advanced forms of AI, in fact, that might even take away from the experience through the unpredictability of it.

Things are a bit different for Northern Shadow. World isn’t static, entire cities can be destroyed. NPCs need to be able to react to constantly changing situations. Since you can build your own cities unlike other RPGs, you end up having to pay a lot more attention to NPC behavior. Suddenly, techniques that would work on traditional open-world RPGs or city builder games end up being irritating and unrealistic, the illusion becomes immediately obvious. Fixing this was a big priority, solution was the complete rewrite of the Northern Shadow AI.

Start at the beginning. What are the requirements for the AI?

At minimum, it should be able keep itself alive. It should be able to know when it is hungry, know how to hunt or collect food. It should become tired as the day goes by, and eventually be required to find a safe spot for sleep. Should be able to recognize threats and defend itself.

That might work well for a cavemen, but not for medieval villagers. We need more advanced forms of interaction. It needs to be able to use currency to buy the food instead. Needs to be able to earn that currency through work. Know that cities are safe(r) places that offer shelter through housing.

That seems enough, but it can go one step further. Instead of reacting to hunger, it can buy the food in advance. Plan to refill its stocks once the food levels are low. Find jobs that cater to its skills and character. Interact with other villagers, form relationships. React to the events of the world around it.

Those are the requirements, lets get a bit in-depth.
Anatomy of an AI

Every AI character have a set of attributes, traits, skills, and feats that defines their character. Lets look at these one by one.
Traits List

Aimless – Ambitious
Unjust – Just
Cowardly – Courageous
Cruel – Merciful
Deceitful – Honest
Despairing – Hopeful
Emotional – Logical
Frugal – Generous
Lazy – Energetic
Proud – Humble
Obedient – Rebellious
Reckless – Prudent
Religious – Secular
Selfish – Selfless
Suspicious – Trusting
Vengeful – Forgiving
Violent – Pacifist
Jealous – Content
Attributes

Strength: Muscle mass
Dexterity: Hand-eye coordination
Agility: Balance and speed
Endurance: Physical stamina
Intelligence: Logic and reasoning
Willpower: Spiritual strength
Wisdom: Insight and intuition
Charisma: Confidence and leadership
Traits

A total of 100 points are split between opposing values. That means if a character 80 points to being generous, they will have 20 points in being frugal. If any value reaches 100 points, that character will become the embodiment of that value, and will never be able to act otherwise. Ie, if a character gets 100 points in pacifist, they will never use any weapons, even to defend themselves.
Feats

Quirks and feats that are specific to the character. Generally used to change or disregard attributes, traits, feats, needs, or skills on varying situations.
Skills

Way too many to list, so I will condense them to archetypes, ie plate, scale, chain, leather, cloth and naked armor skills will be just mentioned as one armor skill.

Armor
Weapon
Crafting
Divine
Lore
Magic
Sneaking
Speech
Work
Misc
A character has 3 sets of attributes, traits, skills, and feats (CharData for short) settings. Racial, Cultural and Personal. A final CharData is derived from these 3 sets of data, and that final data is used in both AI and the dialog systems. 3 stage character allows an NPC to be affected by its racial and cultural heritage. If Elves are arrogant/proud race, an elven NPC will inherit that from its racial CharData. If a town is known for its fishing skills, the NPC will inherit that with cultural CharData.

Throughout the game, all 3 sets of attributes, traits, skills, and feats can change to varying degrees. Racial is the most rigid one and it is very hard to change, as the changes affect the entire race. Cultural keeps slowly evolving by itself through the changes in the cities/kingdoms. Personal one can be influenced by AI (self and other) decisions or through dialog.
Next we have emotions. Emotions are derived from and affects moment to moment actions and AI decisions. If an AI can make a decision or action according to their own values, it will have a positive effect on the AI emotions. If not, it will have a negative effect. Accumulation of negative emotions will cause the character to act randomly sometimes even opposite to their own values.

Short term emotions shift constantly, and they get degraded through the day, degrades faster if the character sleeps or has an other emotional reset mechanic. Long term emotions degrade slowly (2 weeks in-game). A final emotional state is derived from both and used in decision making calculations.
Emotions List

Anger
Loathing
Sadness
Amazement
Fear
Admiration
Joy
Vigilance

300 points are divided between the 8. Increasing one emotional level decreases all others, highest one decreases the most. 100 is the maximum value for a single emotion.
We have bunch of variables for characters to make decisions with. Next we need some concepts so we can use them
Needs

All NPCs have some physiological and psychological needs. They try to fulfil them by selecting an action appropriate to their character. Once fulfilled, they directly affect the short and long term mood of the NPC. Lets look at some of them.

Primary: If any of its values reach 0, the NPC dies.

Secondary: NPCs won’t die if any category reaches negative values, but it will have a profound effect on their state if they do. In this category, sub-needs do not have values of their own. They only serve as a guidance to the NPC on how to fulfil that specific need.
Primary
Food
Water
Temperature
Excretion
Secondaries
Protection:
Shelter
Health
Participation:
Duty
Work
Identity:
Community
Culture
Religion
Affection:
Relationships
Intimacy
Leisure:
Games
Peace
Understanding:
Literature
Education
Community
Creation:
Crafting
Work
Each Need, has a set of tasks that one can take depending on the final CharData and final emotional state. An NPC can iterate over any of the tasks, but they will only affect the mood if they are in the planning stage.
Planning:

All NPCs have 3 different levels of decision making process. Short term, long term and currently executing.

Long term: Tasks that should be done within few weeks. These eventually fall into the short term or currently executing branches, depending on how long it takes to complete them, and how often it is needed to be done. Some may never be fulfilled. Iterating over this branch can cause small adjustments in the NPCs mood.

Short term: Stores the tasks that have very high chance of being completed. Once a task is here, it gets rechecked constantly so that NPC can react to changing situations better. It also acts as a safety net for the NPC, as they can revert a decision made by a previous emotion state.

Currently executing: Converts the high level task that is currently in the execution queue into low level series of actions, tracks the completion of them.
When an NPC executes an action significant enough, they generate an Info construct that gets broadcasted within a range depending on the type of Info. These objects holds facts about the action that just occurred. They hold:

What was the action/event
When did it happen
Who are the involved parties (positive or negative)
Where did it happen
Why did it happen

This info can then be transferred by NPCs talking to each other. NPCs process the info as they receive it, they adjust their emotional state and their needs, then archive that in their memory.

All NPCs have their own friends and acquaintances list, where they keep track of emotional impact that other NPCs caused, and the level of their relationships. They also have an info memory, where they keep a pointer to the original info (stored by the world state), and further specifiers about how much they know.

Infos can also be generated by the game state. A suspicious weather event can generate an info with massive range that changes the fear level of the affected NPCs. A building or a city burning down also generates an info. If an NPC with that info can reach another city, it can transfer the info to that city, which in turn can affect the AI decisions of that city, as a city entity or as an individual NPC. Items can store infos and spread them. These can be notes, books, items used for certain purposes, or legendary items.

Info acquisition and sharing by the NPCs is the primary way of getting information about the world state. You and NPCs can also fabricate info (lie essentially), but that is for the dialog system blog to explain.
Optimization

While infos are very small, they can still accumulate out of control. Most of the infos are very short lived. Only the actions that substantially change the world state or an NPC are stored permanently. Few examples; death, destruction of a structure, forest fire, extraordinary event, supernatural event, cheating, lying, treason, sacrifice and so on.

AI characters decision making can be a heavy process when there are many NPCs and many infos. This process gets spread across few seconds so that it doesn’t bog down the game thread. Also, different planning stages execute at different intervals, and some of the results are cached. A future optimization method could be the offloading this entirely on a new thread.
Well, that is about it. It touched almost every aspect of the AI and its decision making process. Next week, there should be a blog about the dialog system, and how it ties into the AI and some of the unexplained interaction.

Feel free to join in on the discussion on either all AI aspects, or this blog specifically!

Thanks for reading!

Source : http://northernshadow-game.com/devbl...dev-blog-2-ai/